The Darrell McClain show

War Room Diplomacy: A Conversation in Chaos

Darrell McClain Season 1 Episode 448

Send us a text

In this compelling episode, we delve into a tense meeting that captured public attention and stirred debate: the interaction between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and former President Trump in the Oval Office. Their discussion navigates complex issues surrounding military support, respect, and the high stakes of diplomacy in wartime. As leaders grapple with their countries' fates in the face of aggression, we explore the necessity of showing gratitude and mutual respect, key aspects often overshadowed in political rhetoric.

Listeners will be taken through a nuanced examination of the conversation, featuring contrasting perspectives from international leaders who are rallying behind Ukraine during its trying times. A historical lens is applied to highlight the weight of diplomatic tradition in confronting contemporary challenges, making connections that resonate with audiences today. This episode invites you to reflect on how politics shapes lives and emphasizes the profound impact of respect in forging alliances.

Whether you're interested in international relations or just curious about the dynamics of leadership in crisis, this episode packs a powerful punch. Join us for an insightful discussion that not only informs but inspires you to think critically about diplomacy and the power of gratitude in shaping the future. Subscribe, share, and let us know your thoughts!

Support the show

Speaker 1:

He killed a lot of people and he didn't exchange prisons. We signed the exchange of prisons, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy JT you asked me about? What does it mean? I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come to the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media Right now. You guys are going around enforcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conference. Have you ever been to Ukraine? Did you say what problems we have? I have been to— the commonwealth. I've actually watched and seen the stories, stories, and I know what happens. Is you bring people? You bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr President, do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people in your military?

Speaker 2:

And do you think that it's?

Speaker 3:

respectful to come to the Oval Office of the.

Speaker 1:

United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country. I love the questions. Let's start from the big picture. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you, but you have a nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless you. God bless you, god bless you. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel, because you're in no position to dictate that. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.

Speaker 1:

You're, right now, not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about it. You're, right now, not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards. Right now, with us, you start having cards. Right now, you're playing cards.

Speaker 3:

You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people.

Speaker 1:

You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.

Speaker 5:

That's back to you.

Speaker 1:

Far more than a lot of people said. We should have. Have you said thank you once. This entire meeting, no, this entire meeting. You said thank you. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offered some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president is trying to save your country. Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you will win? He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. Wait a minute. No, no, you've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. I know You're not winning this.

Speaker 1:

You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us, mr President, we have seen in our country staying strong from the very beginning. We don't do more, we're beating the load and we are thankful. I said thanks to you. You haven't been alone. You haven't been alone. We gave you through this stupid president $350 billion. We gave you military equipment and your men are brave, but they have used our military equipment. If you didn't have our military equipment, if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks, In three days.

Speaker 1:

I heard it from Putin In three days. This is how many of us In two weeks, in three days. I heard it from Putin In three days. This is how many of us In two weeks. Of course, yes, it's going to be a very hard thing to do. Business like this. Just say thank you, I said, except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media. When you're wrong, we know that you're wrong. You see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on.

Speaker 3:

I think it's very important.

Speaker 1:

That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful you don't have the cards. You're buried there. You have people that died.

Speaker 3:

You're running low on soldiers.

Speaker 1:

Listen, you're running low on soldiers, it would be a damn good thing. And then you tell us I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire, I want to go and I want this. Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you take it, so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. Of course we want to stop the war, but you're saying you don't want a see, I want to see because you get a ceasefire faster than I. Agree. A lot of people have always just smile when they see that wasn't with me, that wasn't with me that was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person.

Speaker 1:

That was your. That was with Obama. Excuse me, that was with Obama, who gave you sheets and I gave you javelins.

Speaker 3:

I gave you the javelins, to take out all those tax.

Speaker 1:

Obama gave you sheets and I gave you javelins. I gave you the javelins to take out all those tax. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins.

Speaker 6:

This exchange was viewed very differently by very different people. I got some friends who thought it was necessary because and they thought that the president looked strong. I thought some people who thought the president looked unhinged and weak. I could say that this was towards the end of the meeting. The meeting had somewhat gone on for about 45 minutes before this came up.

Speaker 6:

Now this somewhat went off the rails because um zielinski made the move, pointing out that Putin had broken a ceasefire in 2015. And when that happened, vance started talking about diplomacy, but Zelensky was somewhat trying to point out that the diplomacy doesn't matter because Putin is not a trustworthy partner. Doesn't matter because Putin is not a trustworthy partner. Now Zelensky spoke a very simple truth which was deemed, for some reason, totally unacceptable because he was trying to litigate the issue in front of the press. I, when I looked at it, I was somewhat embarrassed. I, when I looked at it, I was somewhat embarrassed because it didn't seem like it was serious conversation. I'm thinking that somebody's country is at war and the media is asking silly questions like why don't you wear a suit? And that media personality was somebody who was supposed to get access to bring more of an independent media thing in there, but it's Marjorie Taylor, marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. And then, of course, you go back to the historical comparisons and you say, well, you know, when Winston Churchill went to the white house, um, during the war, he, he never wore a suit. You know, you imagine, would that be an outrage if, if that was to happen today. And then you see how somewhat fake this was. But this did make europe have to somewhat stand up.

Speaker 6:

The uh polish prime minister came out and said uh, dear zielinski, dear ukrainian friends, you are not alone. The president, uh, lithuania, said ukraine, you'll never walk alone. The president of denmark came out and said dear zielinski, den Denmark proudly stands with Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. The president of France came out there's an aggressor, it's Russia. There are people being aggressed Ukraine. We are all right to help Ukraine in sectioning Russia three years ago and continue to do so. We that the Americans, the Europeans, the Canadians, the Japanese and many others, because they are fighting for their dignity, their independence, for their children and for the security of Europe. The president of Moldova said the truth is simple. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is the aggressor. Ukraine defends its freedom and ours. We stand with ukraine. The swedish prime minister said sweden stands in ukraine. You are not only fighting for your freedom, but also for all of europe. Sliver ukraine. The incoming german chancellor said dear zelinski, we we stand with Ukraine in good and in testing times. We must never confuse the aggressor and the victim in this terrible war.

Speaker 6:

The Croatian prime minister stepped up and said Croatia knows from its own experience that only a just peace can last. The Croatian government stands firm in its belief that Ukraine needs such peace, a peace that means sovereignty, territorial integrity and a secure Europe. Finland's prime minister stood up and said Finland and the Finnish people stand firmly with Ukraine. We will continue our unwavering support and work towards a just and lasting peace. Estonian prime minister said we stand with Ukraine. We united with Zelensky and Ukrainian in our fight for freedom, always because it is right, not easy.

Speaker 6:

Ireland's deputy prime minister said Ukraine is not to blame for this war brought about by Russia's illegal invasion. We stand with Ukraine. The prime minister, well, the president of the Leviticus said Ukraine is a victim of Russian aggression. It's a fight to war. With the help from many friends and partners, we need to spare no effort for just a lasting peace. Leviticus stands with Ukraine.

Speaker 6:

The Prime Minister of the Netherlands said the Netherlands support Ukraine as firmly as ever. No more than ever. We must Ukraine as firmly as ever. No more than ever we must. We want a lasting peace and the end of the war of aggression started by Russia for Ukraine and its people and for Europe. The prime minister of Luxembourg said Luxembourg stands with Ukraine. You're fighting for your freedom and a rules-based international order.

Speaker 6:

Now I will say this and I'll say this is a very frustrating situation. It's very frustrating because Ukraine is only in this situation because of a treaty signed in 1994 that guaranteed the security exchange for america for releasing the nuclear weapons program, you know, relinquishing the nuclear weapons program. It was extensional, or is extensional, I should say, to note that Russia was also a signer of the treaty. It was Russia's actions that violated the treaty, not the United States, not Ukraine. But at the same time, I could say that the United States posture towards Russia and China for a very long time has been obviously antagonistic and I think that there's a reason why, uh, trump somewhat behaves the way he behaves towards the European order, I should say, and I think that is because he's very skeptical of it and I think he, you know, is very skeptical of the European Union. I think he's skeptical of NATO. I think you can somewhat see in the way he reacts to our closest neighboring ally, canada, that the president fundamentally questions a lot of these partnerships, and that includes our partnership with Ukraine, and wondering why we don't support Russia in this type of encounter. So, in that same spirit of people weighing in around the world, the former president of Poland, lech Wałsa, wrote the following letter to the current president of the United States, donald Trump.

Speaker 6:

Your Excellency, mr President, we watched the report of your conversation with President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided in the United States fight against Russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who have shed their blood in defense of the values of a free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin's Russia. Independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin's Russia. We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.

Speaker 6:

Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office. During this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of security services and the debates in the communist courts, prosecutors and judges acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police would explain to us that they held all the power, while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedom and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Vladimir Zelensky was treated in this same manner.

Speaker 6:

The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values, its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodshire Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War. I President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. He resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in the alliance with the nations under the attack by the Third Reich.

Speaker 6:

We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America's final commitment to the collapse of the Soviet empire, we would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in the Soviet Russia and that countries had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners, who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedoms. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an empire of evil and to fight it decisively. We won, and today the statue of President Reagan stands in Warsaw facing the US Embassy. Mr President, material aid, military and financial, can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine's independence and freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless. It cannot be measured in money.

Speaker 6:

Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us and the peoples of solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under the Soviet Russia. We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in 1994 and the Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishing of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional. There's no mentioning of treating such assistance as an economic transaction. Signed Les Welsa, former political prisoner. President of Poland. We'll be right back with more.

Speaker 6:

So, that was the legendary investor, the oracle from omaha, warren buffett, on the trump tariffs that have now come into effect 25 tariffs on imports from canada and mexico. Now they propose a um are hit a 10% tariff on China. Now that is on top of an already instituted 10% tariff on Chinese imports. So China and Canada, mexico swiftly responded, china and Canada putting their own tariffs on the US. Swiftly, canada buying tariffs up to 25%. Doug Ford, the Ontario from Canada, said that the economic back and forth tariffs between the United States and Canada would cause devastation to both countries.

Speaker 3:

It's one person that's coming to attack us economically your closest friend, your treasured ally, that will stand shoulder to shoulder with you in every situation you've faced and he's attacking the person his number one customer. There's no country in the world that buys more products off the US than we do. We're the number one trading customer to 28 states, and a lot of them are red states. They're going to feel a pain like they've never felt before.

Speaker 6:

Now together China, mexico, Canada made up 40% of exports to the United States last year.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, good morning. Right now we're looking at the futures. I'm looking right now I mean basically flat, moving fractionally higher or lower, but of course, yesterday we saw a major sell-off on Wall Street, with the S&P 500, often called the broader market having its worst day of the year, the tech-heavy Nasdaq down more than 2.5%. So these tariffs, they're raising a lot of questions for investors, business leaders and small business owners. We can't leave Main Street out of this. The questions are will they spark inflation? Will they metaphorically be the straw in the back of the camel for the consumer that's already stretched thin? And what will other countries do in response from tariffs to other measures? Today we saw China put US biotech company Illumina on their list of companies that they believe threaten national security. And while these kind of things, it's not necessarily official retaliation, there's other companies that work within China that need state approval for different business initiatives. One name often mentioned is Apple. They essentially need Chinese government approval to launch their Apple intelligence service for iPhones there. So, as we look at this, the question is what kind of impact will tariffs have on the US economy and on the markets?

Speaker 5:

We had the head of research for JP Morgan on my show yesterday. According to her research, last year the effective tariff rate here in the US it was about 2%, just over that. With these tariffs that went into effect today that's going to jump up to approximately 9%. And then we also have a Wall Street that's become increasingly sensitive to economic reports and economic data. Yesterday we had one that certainly seemed to shock investors. It came from the Atlanta Fed. They put out a forecast for GDP gross domestic product, kind of the report card for the economy. They updated on a regular basis. So back on February 28th they had a forecast of GDP being down 1.5% for Q1. Yesterday they put out a new forecast down 2.8 percent. Certainly a shock to the market, a big change when it comes to that. So a lot of questions about these tariffs and how's it all going to play out? There was some thought before that these tariffs, they were a negotiating ploy, but now we see the president's very serious about implementing them.

Speaker 6:

GDP down, inflation up. That was CSNBC's anchor, Frank Holland. If you want to check out some of his reporting.

Speaker 7:

China didn't waste any time in retaliating against the new US tariffs, announcing their own broad tariffs on American food and effectively telling US companies 15 of them that they can no longer do business here without getting special permission.

Speaker 7:

This is a big hit for American farmers, especially in the Midwest. They export a lot to China. It's the largest food importer in the world Chicken, wheat, corn, cotton all subject to a 15% tariff and 10% tariffs on sorghum, soybeans, pork, beef, fruits, vegetables, dairy and aquatic products. Now these levies take effect on March the 10th, which is a sign that Beijing is allowing some time and room for negotiation, but the fact is there has been very little communication between these two sides since President Trump announced tariffs last month. There's now together 20% on nearly all Chinese goods. Now the White House says this is about fentanyl, accusing China of doing too little to stop the flow of it into the US. This is something China takes great exception to, pointing to counter-narcotics cooperation with US officials. Beijing is also warning the US about using tariffs as a national security tool and say that the Trump administration, to this point, doesn't appear to know what it wants from China.

Speaker 2:

There is high level ambiguity understood from here, because one is that what exactly Donald Trump really wants from China? So simply to address the drug issue, or he wants something of significant meaning of economic pact. What exactly is the package he really desires? So retaliation is to express the Chinese attitude, but eventually China sees that it's not really going to help the US industry, it's not going to help the US economy.

Speaker 7:

Officially, the foreign ministry has called the terrorist blackmail and they've hinted that it might curtail or even cut counter-narcotic cooperation.

Speaker 7:

They've done it before, so there's precedent for that, and it also reiterated the position that they think the root cause of the fentanyl problem is in the US itself.

Speaker 7:

Now, for the US businesses added to this unreliable entities list, it means companies like Skydio, the drone maker that supplies the military. They can't buy Chinese-made components anymore without special permission. Now, in terms of next steps, beijing could move to improve trade relations with Europe, which has its own complaints about China and EVs and overcapacity and also facing US tariffs. But the message the leadership here appears to be sending is that unilateral tariffs don't work and that ultimately, us businesses and US consumers will pay the price. And I just want to quickly add something on Chinese consumers, who are seen as being quite conformist and following the government guardrails. We have, over the past year or so, seen a move that Chinese consumers have made from American products to more Chinese-made products. What there is some discussion of is perhaps the potential for Chinese consumers to outright boycott American companies like Starbucks, like McDonald's, like KFC, which would, of course, hurt US businesses even further.

Speaker 6:

For a little bit of reiteration or clarification here how China, canada, mexico are retaliating when it comes to the tariffs is the officials in Canada? China announced the retaliatory actions on Tuesday after President Trump's 25% tariff on all imports from Canada Mexico went into effect after midnight. Along with the additional 10% levy on Chinese goods and on top of a 10% tariff that was already enacted last month, chinese authorities announced a 10% to 15% increase in import duties on several key American agricultural and food products and expanded export control on 15 US firms. Chinese finance minister said an additional 15% tariff will be imposed on US firms. Chinese finance minister said an additional 15 percent tariffs will be imposed on US chicken, wheat, corn, cotton imports, as well as soybeans, soy corn, pork, beef, aquatic products, fruits, vegetables, dairy imports will face an additional 10 percent levy. Both will go into effect on March the 10th. In a separate announcement, china's Ministry of Commerce announced it was expanding its ports control on dual-use items which can be used for both civilian and military purposes, to target several US defense contractors, including Lidos, general Aeronautical Systems and General Dynamics Land Systems.

Speaker 6:

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that his country will respond to Trump's tariffs with a 25% retaliatory duties against the CAD $155 billion or $170 billion of American goods. Trudeau said tariffs on CAD $30 billion, or $20.7 billion worth of goods will go into effect immediately and tariffs on the remaining CAD $125 billion $86.3 billion American products will go into effect in 21 days, and both will remain in place until the US trade action is withdrawn. Early on Monday, mexican President Claudia Sabino said a a conference and patience was needed and her country had a plan A, a plan B and a plan C, even a plan D in place, without offering much more detail on the contingency plan. The US unilateral tariffs increased damages the multilateral trading system, increases the burden of US companies and consumers and undermines the foundation of the economic and rural cooperation between China and the US, the Chinese finance minister said in an announcement. Further reactions are likely to emerge during the daily Chinese foreign minister's press briefing throughout the week. Trudeau called the tariffs and measures unjustified and added because of tariffs imposed by the United States, americans will pay more for groceries, gas and cars and potentially lose thousands of jobs. Tariffs will disrupt an incredibly successful trading relationship. They will violate the very trade agreement that was negotiated by President Trump in his last term.

Speaker 6:

In an announcement, the Canadian prime minister also warned that if the levies are not lifted, the government is in a discussion with provisional and regional authorities to pursue several non-tariff measures In addition to the retaliatory tariffs and export control. Chinese authorities have also announced they are banning imports of genetic sequencing machines made by the US biotech firms Aluma. The ban comes almost a month after Aluma was added to an unreliable entity list along with Kelvin Klein parent company, pvh Group, and at the time Beijing accused the companies of cutting normal transactions with Chinese enterprise and adopting discriminatory measures against Chinese firms. The Commerce Minister also announced the addition of the 10 other US firms to its unreliable entities list, including America's largest military shipbuilder, huntington Ingalls Industry.

Speaker 6:

So yeah, wall Street Journal put out another thing on this and doubled down and said that this was a dumb trade war and said something like uh, donald Trump falls into a dumb trade war. Wall Street Journal, of course, the Republican uh paper uh kind of used to be the Republican Bible as far as uh uh, the Republican thought was, and they have been uh unanimous in their critique of tariffs. Be back with the Blasphemy of the Intellectual Past. See you on the next episode.

Speaker 4:

It's true that people have asked that question again and again. Should we tell kids that Columbus, whom they've been told was a great hero, that Columbus mutilated Indians and kidnapped them and killed them in pursuit of gold? Should we tell people that Theodore Roosevelt, who was held up as one of our great presidents, who was really a warmonger, who loved military exploits and who congratulated an American general who committed a massacre in the Philippines? Should we tell young people that? And I think my answer is we should be honest with young people, we should not deceive them, we should be honest about the history of our country and we should be not only taking down the traditional heroes like Andrew Jackson, theodore Roosevelt, but we should be giving young people an alternate set of heroes. Instead of Theodore Roosevelt, tell them about Mark Twain. Mark Twain, well, mark Twain everybody learns about as the author of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, but when we go to school, we don't learn about Mark Twain as the vice president of the anti-imperialist league. We aren't told that Mark Twain denounced Theodore Roosevelt for approving this massacre of the Philippines. We want to give young people ideal figures like Helen Keller, and I remember learning about Helen Keller. Everybody learns about Helen Keller and I remember learning about Helen Keller. Everybody learns about Helen Keller. You know a disabled person who overcame her handicaps and became famous.

Speaker 4:

But people don't learn in school and young people don't learn in school what we want them to learn when we do books like A Young People's History of the United States. And Helen Keller was a socialist, she was a labor organizer, she refused to cross a picket line that was picketing a theater showing a play about her, and so there are these alternate heroes in American history. There's Fannie Lou Hamer and Bob Moses. They're the heroes of the Civil Rights Movement. There are a lot of people who are obscure, who are not known.

Speaker 4:

We have in this young people's history. We have a young hero who was sitting on the bus in Montgomery, alabama, refused to leave the front of the bus and it was before Rosa Parks I mean, rosa Parks is justifiably famous for refusing to leave her seat and she got arrested and that was the beginning of the Montgomery bus boycott and really the beginning of a great movement in the South. But this 15-year-old girl did it first. But we, this 15-year-old girl, did it first, and so we have a lot of. We are trying to bring a lot of these obscure people back into the forefront of our attention and inspire young people to say this is the way to live.

Speaker 3:

That's Howard Zinn appearing on Democracy Now in 2009.